Should I fold or call?

Online tournament at AbsolutePoker/UltimateBet

I am a well known player over there (I won both Yearly Tournament Leardeboard on 2008, Two sites merged at end of 2008).
I have no ideal how he plays.

I raised 3.5x from middle position with AQ, only my left called me.

Flop  KKQ:  I bet 60%, he call;
Turn  5:     I bet 60%, he re-raise double, I call;
River  K:    I check, he bet the pot ($600)

I had about $5000 chips

I typed: K?
He typed: Yes

Should I fold or call?

It is amazing how much one can improve their game over the time. Looking back on my suggestion 8 month ago when i only played holdem for 3 month, they just looked so stupid.  Agree with yacaimei, check call turn, and check/call or check/fold river based on bet size ( i like check call 2 street if he does not go out of line with betting).  Check raise turn is the worse play that one can do at this spot.  The problem of betting turn is that when you get raised you don't really get much information whether he is making a move or value betting. Call raise and plan to fold river seems very exploitable.  There is no reason for me to stop betting even if I just made a move on turn, because it is so obvious that you don't have a K after you call raise and check river.

I would check turn to control the pot. My plan is to call both turn and river if he bets. If he check back on the turn, i'll lead out river hope get called by wrose.

My reason to check on turn is it's either way ahead or way behind situation. He most likely have 3 type of hands:
1)Small pocket pair or wrose Q. Not many PP will call all 3 street, so we probably get one more street value from PP at most. Put it on the river makes it most likely get paid off. The risk we take is give him a free card which is fine cuz he only hits 5% of the time.Same reason for Q, only wrose Q is drawing dead.

2)Float. If he's floating on the flop, then check to induce bluff is much better than other options IMO. Betting here fold out all the wrose hands and called by better. If I play very low buyin tournments, i'll call turn and check fold river, cuz less players float, and less players fire more than 1 bullet. I assume this is mid-high stake tournments so players are more agg, so i would more likely to c/c river in that case.

3)Against a K or other monsters. I don't know if betting to get info is a better way to save chips if ha had K. I would rather call both turn and river than call turn and c/f the river.U save a bit chips but I got see the showdown and u had tough decision on river.

C/R on turn IMO is bad.No better hand would fold and no worse will call. Our hand is too good to turn it into bluff.
The highest buyin i played without someone's stacking is 11R, so that's the lvl i'm thinking at.

Would you checked A's full on the last positon？
A few years back, when I was playing $400-800 Limit Hold'em at the Commerce, I was holding AA on the button, there were three ways action, one of the regular pros from Taiwan“Sam”was in the early position coming with a raise，I made it three bets，the big blind cap with four bets，Same called and of course I did the same。Flop came A 9 3 rainbow，BB checked， Sam bets， I just flat called，turn was a Q，BB checked again，Sam fired once more， I raised，BB made it three bets，Sam fold。（After the hand was over， Sam told me he had AK）。I raised again，river came another Q，he checked。Guess what？I show my AA and checked behind him。He was jumping out of his seat while showing his QQ and was screaming at me：“David， how the hell you check your A's full？”I replied with a smile：“Buddy， you had a tell from New York City to Los Angeles“。
Honestly，I would never able to do that online。

He played well, and you too.
by cold call on flop you got no information for his hand.
by raise and get called at turn, he can be sure you had a Q+ so he manage his river betting size
by betting pot at river, he would get max value knowing that you had Q and hard to fold( in which case you did n't bite the hook anyway)

I would re-raise on turn to avoid tough spot at river like this. Yes you may loose a little more but you are more comfortable at river ,or even similar situation later.

Honestly, it is not a easy fold at river like this, You did the right decision FOR THIS HAND ONLY,

but it is very easy to be wrong, either call and lose or being bluffed away.


As U said: by raise and get called at turn, he can be sure you had a Q+ so he manage his river betting size.

If he only has Q, he knew people will call with Q and Fold with less than Q for pot size betting. Also I could have AA or K. Plus with my experience AA999 as mentioned before. Of course, I can not 100% sure, But I put him the chance had K or AA larger than 95%.
Also from math calculation, U profit $300 by calling if he had Q. U will lose additional $600 by calling if he had K or AA. So this is not very tough fold.

The most tough fold should be David Chiu folded KK preflop.

He played well, and you too.
by cold call on flop you got no information for his hand.
by raise and get called at turn, he can be sure you had a Q+ so he manage his river betting size
by betting pot at river, he would get max value knowing that you had Q and hard to fold( in which case you did n't bite the hook anyway)

I would re-raise on turn to avoid tough spot at river like this. Yes you may loose a little more but you are more comfortable at river ,or even similar situation later.

Honestly, it is not a easy fold at river like this, You did the right decision FOR THIS HAND ONLY,

but it is very easy to be wrong, either call and lose or being bluffed away.

very good player

Nice post.Thanks for share your handhistory.
I learn more here.

I will not call to see his card if I am quite sure I am behind. I will cut loss. Every chip is my soldier, and I love my every soldier.
He re-raise double: I put h ...
pan300at 发表于 2009-8-15 19:04

know what makes u a winning player now.thx for your wonderful posts

if you reread my post. my first option is check and raise turn, check and call is only a secondary alternative.
but again, you are the best player out there, probably knows much more than I.  [s:167]