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自从从NL25升上NL50 on 5/18/2010

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1#
windstormm 发表于 2010-6-9 12:28:04 | 显示全部楼层 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-9 12:37 编辑

10.79bb/100 hand.. did not have one losing day.

不是显摆..是给新手信心.. 我今年一月开始打cash的.  扎扎实实打好poker 基础,在microstake 要稳定盈利是很容易的
1-2月                            NL10 30k hand break even 0bb/100hand
3-5月                             NL25  60k hand 3.5bb/100hand
5/18/2010 until today   NL50  24k hands  10.79bb/100hand

all rush poker on ftp, play 1-2 hour every day.  

新手打好poker 基础, 学会ABC poker成为winner再学花捎的十么 "slow play AA ". Those are not useful at all if you are not a winner yet. My true advise from the heart as a beginner myself.

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2#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-9 12:42:37 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-9 12:45 编辑

overall graph. how I turn myself into a winner over the period of less than half year.

first 30k hand break even as you can see.

I am not the best player out there obviously. but i know how to turn a beginner to a winner in a short period of time. it is by learning poker from the basics.

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3#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-9 21:48:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-10 02:36 编辑
Very impressive and good job!

请问楼主,你所指的ABC扑克是指严格按照教科书(比如,preflop以位置和牌力入局,总体打得紧极少bluff)打,还是因为是rush poker有所调整?比如,总体来讲,大部分rush poker的选手会拿到更好的牌时才入局,这时根据位置把自己的range放宽一些,或者说是更凶一些?我个人打过一小段时间rush poker的micro-level,少于5k手吧。总体策略就是凶,几乎每次入局都是3x 入局,特别是在button位置时,几乎任何牌都玩。依据对手翻牌后表现,fold or fire at most 2 bullets if I try to bluff. 刚开始小赢了一段时间,后来又输了回去,离稳定还很远。

另外,不知道楼主是在rush poker里面打deep stack还是比如翻2番之后退出重新入局?我还控制不好deep stack,经常1,2个小时累积的筹码一把就会输回去。。。所以,我个人都prefer打short stack,但这样积累筹码又太慢了,呵呵。

不知道楼主能否share一下自己rush poker的经验?

一般我打到200bb, 会reload, deep stack 是很难打, 不过我reload 还为了减少swing。. 不要打short stack, 至少打80 bb.  最好buy in full..
"总体打得紧极少bluff" 不是ABC TAG poker是nit fish.
share 一下我在mitbbs 的文章, 讨论preflop tight or loose 和 after flop 的different approach:

"I am very tight preflop. However, i don't play fit and fold after flop nor
do I pot pot all in with TPTK or over pair. I would call my game a typical
tight and aggressive game. Key weapon is

1) stealing in position (small to medium pot)
2) pot size control for medium strenghth hand(I would consider all one pair
hand as medium strength, sometimes even two pairs depending on board
structure.)
3) value bet, value bet and value bet.  (the most important of all skills at
microstake)

Manipulate betting size to get full value for your hand is in fact easier in
NL50 than NL25, because more people pay attention to it. Use it to your
advantage.  No matter it is getting two bets from your top pair weak kicker
out of their middle pair or stack someone with your set. It takes planning
and reads before it gets down to the last betting round.  Don't over bet the
pot unless you are fairly sure that you will get a call. You get NO value
for check raise 4X on flop with your set if you do not get a call.

The best part of TAG game is lower swing. I have not had a swing more than 2
buy in so far in NL 50 even with cooler and bad beats after 20k hands.

Play loose when everyone is tight seems logical preflop, but it is not after
flop. Once you get a call preflop with your Q9s after opening 3.5X, you
would be fighting an uphill battel all 3 streets. I hope you didn't raise it
EP because you are adding more difficulty to your game. You might have
better postflop skill than others, but your weak starting hand in fact HURTs
your edge a bit postflop. If you have to bluff 3 barrel cold often trying
to take a pot. I think it is time to tighten up. If you are super loose
preflop (like 24/23), i think you need to be considerably tighter after flop or
you will be in trouble more often than not. Overall, it might not be as
profitable as playing TAG. I like it tight preflop relative loose after flop. It is just so much easier to bluff 3 street cold when you have a vpip of 12/6 than someone with 24/23. ^_^"
4#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-9 21:54:14 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-9 21:58 编辑

另外一篇我对river 的approach based on some discussion on mitbbs 。  主要是驳斥river 论点"we need to call river bet with marginal hands to avoid being bluffed."  应该对新手有点帮助。


"I didn't have time to discuss further on this yesterday while playing 2
tables at the side.  I want to talk a little more on this. I truly believe
nash's opinion on river showdown is exactly opposite of what we should do on
river.

River is the most important street in Holdem.  For a few reasons, 1) the
cards are out, you are either beat or you have won. There is no more miracle
card to come to save you; 2) the pot at river is many more times larger
than previous street, which make your decision that much more important.
Your ability to value bet, bluff and call bluff at river is the ultimate
weapon to make you a winning player.  If you play your river well, your
starting hand is really not important anymore, because you can play any two
cards and extract maximum value.

Now that we understand how important river is, we need to understand a few
more key point 1) People do not bluff as often as you think at river.  2)  
People who are LAG preflop, flop, turn, does not necessary equal to they are
aggressive on river.  Even if they are, they will be at a much less
frequency.  Because of these two points, you are better off folding a lot of
marginal hand than being taken to value town at river. You can call a bluff
ONLY IF you have a specific read. Don't do it the other way around like "
calling some marginal hand to avoid being bluffed."  It is WRONG, and it
does not worth it. It does not make you a winner.  

There is a reason why people do not think playing short stack is real holdem
, because you avoided the most complex street in holdem and most of the time
you are all in by turn. It is also more difficult to play river simply
because there are more cards on the table. Your read is your ultimate weapon
at river.  When you are dealing with river, not only look at your own two
hole cards, but also think about what the other player have and what other
player think you have. Think about what hand you can get value from and what
hand you can beat.

Simple example,
utg raise 4X you call at button with AKs,
flop AQJ rainbow, utg pot, you call,
turn 2 , utg pot again, you call.
River is another 2, utg put in another pot.
What do you do here?  You should fold most of the time., because you are
getting value from no hands here. You called two pot size and represented a
strong hand (I can guarantee you that utg will not think you have pocket 9s)
. You can call rarely ONLY if you have a read that utg is capable of
bluffing 3 street after raise utg with junk. Even though if this is the case
, you still proceed with caution and understand that you are trying to catch
a bluff not trying to get value from his A10."
5#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-9 23:27:24 | 显示全部楼层
我是打9人full ring 的..一般可以比 6max 更紧点.
6#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-10 00:12:09 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-10 00:16 编辑
很多建议是AF保持在3比较好

对于需要主动bet或者rasie的牌型我还比较了解,但是我想交流一下都有哪些牌值 ...
skizzik 发表于 2010-6-9 23:24



我在NL25的AF 是2.7.. NL50 是3.4 so far.  原因是NL50的人fold 的凭率明显高.. second level thinker, 他们已经开始考虑对手的牌了. use it to your advantage, be consistent with what hand you are trying to represent, 所以我增加了我的aggression 特撇是in position.

其实我觉得很多牌flop 都不要raise.   call 的效果更好.. 你一raise, 很多worse hand的都fold 乐, 他一3 bet,你如果放不下,一定被清了... TPTK or 2 pair 都不recommend raise unless you have specific read.  You can also call some sets in position, sometimes you get more value out of it by mixing it up.

几种情况我大都会raise flop
1) value raise with sets if you put your opponents on a relatively strong hand ( top pair or over pair ) or a draw or if your opponents is a calling station.
2) you have total air and you feel your opponents's flop bet is very weak on a draw possible board(like flush draw), and you want to bluff at it. Reason is here, there is a clear draw on board, so your call looks relatively weak and you do only have air. if your hand is air and your play is weak, it is a bad combination. You can't win by show down and you can't win by bluff either in later street.  so you should fold or take a stab at the pot right there. This play can back fire because some people might just put you on a draw and will stack off with a marginal hand. Then you have to fold.
3) You have total air and you sense your opponents are cbetting with total air and you want to bluff at it right there.

Combine these in a perfect proportion so that they are not sure whether you are bluffing or value raising, like 2:1 value raise to bluff ratio.
2) 最好不要float   3) 你也可以float. 特别是你bb vs sb 的时候.. 如果你trust your read, 你在turn either bet when he check to you or you raise him on turn and bets river if he calls raise on turn and check to your river.
when you pull this kind of bluffs, you should really have a relatively tight image, or it would not work as well.

when you try a bluff, pay attention to your opponent's range as well as what he puts you on.
if a tight but aggressive guy opens at MP and you call at button with 10 Js .
flop 785 rainbow. he bets 2/3 pot,  you call.  (you could raise, but i like call better, it put 2 pair, set, draws all type of hand in your range if you have called with those hand before)
turn is a 6, he bets 2/3 pot again. you should fold or raise turn here. because the board is very favorite to your range but not to his after you flat preflop and call flop. You can  have varity of hand that have him beat (2 pair, set and straight). He could have a totally air with AK or he can have an over pair still would be difficult to call you down) if he calls your raise and check to your river and you didn't make your draw, then you have to fire 3rd barrel 2/3 pot at least try to take a stab at the pot.

This type of play should be mixed with  some of your monster hand. preferable 2:1 ratio to be effective. and you should have a relatively tight image on the table.  

The general rule of betting is: you should bluff more when you look strong, you should value bet more when you look weak.
When you play weak on a weak hand, don't try to bluff in later street, it is very difficult for it to work.  When you bet on draw on flop, fire second barrel when you missed your draw on turn or just check fold.  Check call turn with draw then try to check raise river for bluff does not work often enough and it is too expensive.  There is no such thing as check call river for bluff like the recent discussion even in most of the live game..  Don't try it. it is stupid even if it wins you some "wo.. ah" when you pull it off.
7#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-10 01:31:30 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-10 01:35 编辑

回复 14# skizzik


是很难办, 建议你raise at least with some outs.  like AK high.  
example,
AsKh you raise on CO, bb calls.
after flop Jc6c2h,
bb donk bet 1/3 pot.  you raise to pot.  BB can donk with variaty of hands. he could have a weak J, middle pair(10s 9s 8s) or flush draws or a set/2 pair. With the fold equity, you are not behind much except set/2 pair. raise here is good because if he has a set he will let you know when he reraise you big (fish likes to small bets and reraise when raised as induce with set or 2 pair, it is an easy read and fold. rarely they do this with pure flush draw. If they do, just fold to them, it is not often enough for you try to catch their bluffs, you should probably follow the same line if you have over pair. ) with 2 pair and sets taken care in their range, you are not behind much on other hands and you have fold equity and position. raise it flop. If he calls, and flush card comes, be very careful (fish likes to bet small call raise with flush draw but check turn when he makes it). i would check behind often but fire on river if he checks to you again and you have high card (you represent a well played top pair or over pair). if there is no flush card and you didn't hit your pair, fire away 2 or 3rd barrel because his hand should not be able to stand 2 or 3rd barrel most of the time.

Most of the time, i suggest to fold your hand if you are unsure.  Knowing when to lay down a hand is just as important as value betting at microstake. There is no shame in it.
8#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-10 02:56:22 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-10 02:57 编辑

回复 17# nipbb

rush poker 以前我cash 打得不多(除了去年我刚开始打holdem的时候,totally clueless), 主要打STT SNGs. 所以普通table我不是很了解。。 不过现在rush 也有HUD, 我觉得应该没太大区别。。
9#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-10 09:27:30 | 显示全部楼层
呵呵 有时候好像在国外呆久了,口头说汉语还比较流利,打字输入汉语就有点不适应了。可能会觉得还是打英文 ...
skizzik 发表于 2010-6-10 09:22


是这样的. 谢谢理解. 不过david 既然说了. 我尽量打中文.. 虽然真很累... ^_^

我也建议新手多去2+2 转转.  又锻炼英语又学打牌.. 一举俩得... 那里有些文章真的不错..
10#
 楼主| windstormm 发表于 2010-6-10 09:30:19 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 windstormm 于 2010-6-10 09:31 编辑
然后打了1万手大约赢了接近220块。鉴于是同时打21桌,还算蛮不错的。
skizzik 发表于 2010-6-10 08:22


21桌不错啊.  我只能打俩桌.. 否则头疼.. 感觉好好考虑一下每一手牌对我自己进步更有帮助..
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