标题: 请教一手现场牌 [打印本页] 作者: leisong 时间: 2010-6-10 07:37 标题: 请教一手现场牌 Toronto falls view,live game 25 nl.
I am at sb with K7o,chip was around 400,4 player limped in,i called,bb check,pot was 30。
Flop:27K,rainbow,i check,ug bet 20,one mp called,fold to me,what to do?
I was thinking a while and raised to 50,ug took a look at the board and fold,the caller asked me how much i left, i said 400,his chip was the same, he said 200 more,back to me,this was a new table,the game just started about 20m,what to do?Easy fold there?
My question is should i check-raise the flop? Or just call?Or should bet out first?作者: skizzik 时间: 2010-6-10 08:23
标准答案:fold pre作者: skizzik 时间: 2010-6-10 08:27
这里往往要根据牌手类型来做判断
那么剩下的就是这个人有没有差到会limp AK K2,并且过度的玩这里了。如果会,他大约会是像58/7这样的人,现场没有HUD,但是这本帐还是要在心里有。作者: xiaodd 时间: 2010-6-10 10:52
you are behind to 77/22, chop to K7, ahead of K2/27/Kx
In live game, most people are more loose than online but 3bet in live game shows more strength
Now you face stake decision and only invested 55. I prefer fold as the return is not good.作者: xiaodd 时间: 2010-6-10 10:52
you are behind to 77/22, chop to K7, ahead of K2/27/Kx
In live game, most people are more loose than online but 3bet in live game shows more strength
Now you face stake decision and only invested 55. I prefer fold as the return is not good.作者: skizzik 时间: 2010-6-10 12:58
嗯 基本上我也会偏向考虑fold多一点
还有楼主是不是打2-5 啊?25 nl 现场应该是没有的作者: nicky1234 时间: 2010-6-10 14:22
fold pre. completing sb with K7o is a losing play for sure.
/ end of discussion.作者: yacaimei 时间: 2010-6-10 14:57
这牌对方bluff的可能非常小,牌面没有听牌,基本对方是K7,22,77,AK或KQ里的一种了。
有几点影响对方有AK的可能性:
-我知道现场用AK平跟的人很多,但是preflop没有raise还是一定程度上减少了对方有AK的可能。
-翻牌后他只是平跟,被raise后反而发力,更像是慢打的大牌。
-UTG bet flop,有可能他有K,这也一定程度减少了对方有AK,KQ的可能。
那么我们简单假设,对方只有set和AK的可能性。那么,对方ak如此打的概率是多少时,我们应该跟呢?
我大概算了一下,如果把AK的weight放在30%左右(不是说对方allin 30%是AK,70%是set,而是30%AK会这样打,70%AK会preflop raise或fold on flop等),我们跟他all in是breakeven。
I am at sb with K7o,chip was around 400,4 player limped in,i called,bb check,pot was 30。
Flop:27K,rainbow,i check,ug bet 20,one mp called,fold to me,what to do?
I was thinking a while and raised to 50,ug took a look at the board and fold,the caller asked me how much i left, i said 400,his chip was the same, he said 200 more,back to me,this was a new table,the game just started about 20m,what to do?Easy fold there?
My question is should i check-raise the flop? Or just call?Or should bet out first?
我只想问一个问题如果你是utg holding AK and limped preflop, 你被check raised so small in a dry board with TPTK with another caller already, 你会着么玩? 我觉得AK KQ passive live player limp utg 的可能性还是很大的.
我的看法是如果你raise so small and fold 不如不要raise作者: 伟大的墙 时间: 2010-6-11 10:11 本帖最后由 伟大的墙 于 2010-6-11 10:24 编辑
但是两种情况有什么区别么?作者: leisong 时间: 2010-6-11 13:20
感谢大家的指教,其实,我对这手牌的疑问主要是POSTFLOP的打法上,PREFLOP松点也许问题不大,我看过很多HIGH STACK录象,即使是那里,有几个人LIMPED IN 后,SB 7ko感觉也会靠的,呵呵,人人都有碰运气的心理。
看到FLOP后,当时还是很兴奋的,想了想,还是CHECK,觉得这个牌面,我要么领先很多,要么落后很多,UTG BET 20,有一个人CALL,我现在认为CALL还是比较合理的,看一张牌,如果是个安全牌即小牌,就等待CHECK RAISE UTG,当时一高兴就RAISE了,呵呵,没想到那个CALLER没忍住,直接上了,他肯定以为我会靠,因为,当时的桌上有几个CALLING STATION,现在仔细想想基本可以排除他是AK、2K的可能,应该是7K、22、77这三手牌,他当时肯定认为我不会FOLD TWO PAIRS,再有就是我的筹码有400多,所以有点急了,他要是平静的CALL,我至少还要损失80左右。
On a table where you think people will only 3 bet and shove all in flop with set, you really should not be playing K7 at all in a multi-way pot OUT OF POSITION. (that's why you are all suggesting to fold right?) Otherwise how are you going to get paid off for all the money you put in preflop even if you hit your 2 pair?
You only need complete the blinds to go in on a multiway pot it seems pretty decent, but the real problem comes after flop. K7 is what I would call a sucker's hand. When you hit your K, you are in trouble more often then not. You are out of position, it is hard to get paid by worse hand (everyone knows there is an over card on board). If someone K10 KJ or K9 type of hand, then you will be losing a not so small pot for sure most of the time.
So why are we playing this hand again? We lose more than winning with top pair. and can't stack someone if we hit 2 pair. If we hit trips Ks, we have the same kicker problem as hitting top pair. The only thing it might pay off is that you hit trip 7 and someone has a 7 and a worst kicker than you. In conclusion, it is a losing hand over long run. and you can't even steal effectively simply because you are at sb and out of position. It is less of a problem if you are at button. So fold pre is correct in my opinion just to avoid all the trouble spot after flop. I would rather complete sb with 78o than K7o in fact.
As for this particular hand, there is only a few hand possible, 77 22 K2 K7 27 (if he is terrible, i would not be too surprised if he limped with 27s on a soft live game), so you are about 50 50 on whether you are ahead or behind. Adding all the idiotic 3 bet flop with top pair and semi strong kicker like AK KQ KJ K10 and total air etc, i think it is a "fist pump shove all in" like what people on 2+2 would suggest. I am not saying it is a winning play, but i think you have to shove at this spot, since you brought this to yourself by misplayed preflop. Sometimes when it is a cooler, you just have to confront it with your stack.